Curse

ruffenredie · Apr 22, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

On a trial run of GW I played a mesmer and was hooked, then when I actually got the game I decided to start with a ranger, as I had read that mesmers were too difficult to begin with. But I quickly created my dominator mesmer (December Frois) and she is still my favourite by far and I've never struggled learning anymore than any other class.

I just don't get why mesmers aren't everyones number one class, they are just the most fun to play.

However, I am too attached to December as she is (I generally create a lot of fluff about who my characters are), but I want to play around with some Illusion magics.

So I've bought a new slot and created a male Mesmer and I would like him to mainly use Illusionary Weaponry (after I've played around with all the other Illusion skills) and be a bit of a buff fighter, I've seen a build like this on YouTube, but don't know what skills I should be aiming for.

What secondary? Warrior?
What elite?
What weapons?
What runes?
Can this build really solo farm as I have seen on another thread?

Help is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

zling · Apr 22, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

yes Illusionary Weapon can farm, it's called the Mesmer version of 55ing.
any fast martial weapon works. Totem Axe and Razajan's Fervor work nicely, so do any other "caster martial weapons"
it can farm UW as well as many other places.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 22, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

If you want to hit things, make an actual warrior/dervish/assassin. Outside of strictly solo-farming builds, Illusionary Weaponry is a horrible, horrible skill and much worse than simply auto-attacking with a physical class.

If you want to run illusion, IW really isn't the way to go. Try looking at [[ineptitude] or [[signet of illusions] instead.

Celestial_Kitsune · Apr 22, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffenredie

I just don't get why mesmers aren't everyones number one class, they are just the most fun to play.

Definition of fun varies among people and that definition may change overtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffenredie

So I've bought a new slot and created a male Mesmer and I would like him to mainly use Illusionary Weaponry (after I've played around with all the other Illusion skills) and be a bit of a buff fighter, I've seen a build like this on YouTube, but don't know what skills I should be aiming for.

What secondary? Warrior?
What elite?
What weapons?
What runes?
Can this build really solo farm as I have seen on another thread?

Help is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Me/A IW with Paradox and Neutrality used to be quite safe. Don't know how it works now after the nerfs. Me/R IW with a pet is fun. You can also go Me/D, Gwen style! Keep in mind though that IW is not a very effective elite.

Kyomi Tachibana · Apr 22, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

For general PvE IW, go with Warrior so you get an IAS, or Assassin so you get access to some decent defensive skills with Shadow Arts, since IW means you aren't actually hitting things, things like Dark Escape and Feigned Neutrality don't end, while using Daggers gives a chance to double strike.

However, a mesmer can effectively duo farm UW quite easily with the 55/Famine build, using IW to kill the Coldfires.

For general PvE I'd recommend something along the lines of: (Assuming you have all campaigns)

A little more defensive:
[build prof=Me/A Illusion=12+1+1 Shadow=10 Fast=8+1][Power Return][Illusionary Weapon][Phantom Pain][Shadow Sanctuary][Dark Escape][Feigned Neutrality][Illusion of Weakness][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Using something along those lines I've seen a couple mesmer friends successfully "tank" when we lacked someone with higher armor to send in before us.

For more offense you can go Me/R or Me/W:
[build prof=Me/R Illusion=12+1+1 Beast=10 Fast=8+1][Power Return][Illusionary Weapon][Heket's Rampage][Phantom Pain][no skill][no skill][Illusion of Weakness][no skill][/build] <-Depending on if you want a pet or not, yeah.

[build prof=Me/W Illusion=12+1+1 Tactics=10 Fast=8+1][Power Return][Illusionary Weapon][Flurry][Phantom Pain][Deadly Riposte][Defensive Stance][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Now, running IW isn't exactly the best idea in PvE, so if you try to PUG while running it, prepare to be called various forms of noob.

Now for the farming build, here's a link for duo farming, I find it to be much quicker and easier, as well as a lot more mistake-friendly:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...IW/Famine_Team

Not the best builds, but hey, it's IW, and PvE.

Edit: Ah, completely forgot about Me/D, oh well.

ruffenredie · Apr 23, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Hey all thanks for the advice given, especially Kyomi Tachibana.

I'll have a play around and try some of those builds out. I've just bought an elite mesmer tome and got IW already, just haven't equipped it yet.

Stormlord Alex I will play around with other illusionary builds on my way to IW, I'll probably switch to that once I'm level 20 though. Its not so much just a desire to hit things, I do have an Assassin that I actually really enjoy playing with anyway. It was more for the fun of it, IW just seems such a bizarre confusing skill I wanted to try it. I've also just created a Dervish to get to try out some avatar forms, I don't think I'll play Dervish much or be good, but they looked a bit fun. I also want it to play very differently from my existing mesmer, she's my main char and this one is just supposed to be a bit of fun.

PUG's won't really be an issue, I haven't really bothered with any for a while. I seem to get through faster and easier with henchies and heroes most of the time. So many PUG's I've been in were a complete disaster with everyone running all over the shot and sometimes being quite nasty to each other or leechers etc, I just gave up. I haven't beento the UW or those sort of things yet though.

I was planning on going warrior secondary and as I've started the char in Nightfall I'll have to stick with that for now, but some of those Assassin skills look to work really well with IW, so I'll aim to change.

weretoad · Apr 23, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

iw is not as good a decent war, or any other front line, but it is effective against enemies with large armor, and the uncounterablity is useful. so like must mez skills it's depends on what your fighting.

P.S. me and party beat aboddon while is what running a IW'ish build and i was effective.

Painbringer · Apr 23, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

I run this in PVP and I usually get PM’S wondering what my build is. You can take a lot of damage with it. Your degeneration is the killer to your foes IW just helps speed it up and put pressure on target. This should work as well in PVE but you will need a prot monk to help you because of the many sources of damage.

Mesmer / Sin

16 Illusion 12 shadow arts balance fast casting

[illusionary Weaponry] [dark escape] [feigned neutrality] [conjure nightmare] [shroud of distress] works good as cover to IW as well [viper's defense] [resurrection signet]

Last skill is optional

[heart of shadow] for the extra heal while skills are recharging

[signet of clumsiness] good for melee classes

[Sympathetic Visage] good for balled up groups

Gear if you can get a shield of enchantment (+ Health for being enchanted) and a sword of enchanting (+20% to duration of enchantmentments)

Any weapon (melee weapon) can be used sword is a little faster then axe and you can carry a shield

Good luck

Abedeus · Apr 23, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Why do you want to use a fragile build that relies on enchantment to deal damage, not very good damage either, when you have so many better choices?

Energy Surge, Ineptitude, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Elementalist Nuking Skills, hell, even Simple Thievery is more effective.

Painbringer · Apr 23, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Why do you want to use a fragile build that relies on enchantment to deal damage, not very good damage either, when you have so many better choices?

Energy Surge, Ineptitude, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Elementalist Nuking Skills, hell, even Simple Thievery is more effective.

Because every now and then it’s fun to put the wands and staffs away and go melee with an Assassin/ Warrior/ Derv. Just defeating one or making them kite away from you because of the havoc you are doing is worth the price of admission.

Molock · Apr 24, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

Because every now and then it’s fun to put the wands and staffs away and go melee with an Assassin/ Warrior/ Derv. Just defeating one or making them kite away from you because of the havoc you are doing is worth the price of admission.

The build depends on enchantments which make it only viable in certain areas. Skill like [Rend Enchantments] kills it.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 24, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

The Me/a version has like 3-4 cover enchants(I don't think I've seen rend in pve outside UW), plus the stuff your monks and necroes can throw on you. Not only that you can arcane echo IW if you're worried about it getting rended. For 20 seconds you have a bit of a buffer, the skill only takes about 30 seconds to recharge nowdays anyway. You can also cast it in a 40/40 set or with a HSR 10%, 20% enchant weapon, and get lucky.

Also whether or not auto attacking does more damage then IW depends on what you're hitting. A warrior pounding an unprotected monk out of his shield set will hurt a lot and get some crit hits, but that same war against some of the tougher PvE monsters will do negligable damage with auto attacks.

IW might not be top 10 GvG meta, but in general PvE and light arenas it is a very potent skill.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 24, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

IW might not be top 10 GvG meta, but in general PvE and light arenas it is a very potent skill.

It is a fun skill and nothing more. A warrior or dervish with no skills is more dangerous than an IW mesmer, and still more resilient.
Even without any skills, a warr/derv creates a drain on a monk by needing prot, and creates a positional threat - i.e., you need to kite to avoid big damages. An IW mes gets laughed at as his pathetic dps is outhealed by the odd patient/woh. He doesn't even waste energy needing prot because prot does nothing against him. Unless you wanna grief your own team/be an 'omg awesome unique snowflake' IW should never be used in any kind of PvP.

itsvictor · Apr 25, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

just out of curiosity why can you not play "the way" you want on your main mesmer now...? and aimed that the "why is this not everyone's favorite class" yes the definition of fun varies from person to person...I enjoy bashing people's head in with melee classes.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 25, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

It is a fun skill and nothing more. A warrior or dervish with no skills is more dangerous than an IW mesmer, and still more resilient.

right, something with no healing, attacking or support skills is more effective than something that has a full bar

Quote:

Even without any skills, a warr/derv creates a drain on a monk by needing prot, and creates a positional threat - i.e., you need to kite to avoid big damages. An IW mes gets laughed at as his pathetic dps is outhealed by the odd patient/woh.

Yeah laughed at.... till that stuff gets diverted/humiliated/blacked out/shut down/snared/degenerated ect and starts losing 40 hp every couple seconds WHILE being pounded by the rest of your team(IIRC axe crits on a 60 al target with 14 axe master is 59, just short of triggering spirit bond, now 20 some odd less damage is a bit, but you do that every swing, guaranteed, unblockable, unblindable, unmissable).

Also, like I said, it depends on what a melee type is hitting, for example, in a warrior vs warrior situation, it would stalemate typically, however IW mesmers make excellent line backers. A war starts losing 38-40 hp a second, cant run or build adrenaline or hit the thing killing it hard enough to kill it, it panics and dies and starts questioning your sexuality, insulting our heritage and race ect. It's a forced choice situation, do enemy healers try and save themselves or push up to save their damage.

Quote:

He doesn't even waste energy needing prot because prot does nothing against him. Unless you wanna grief your own team/be an 'omg awesome unique snowflake' IW should never be used in any kind of PvP.

Bingo, common prot won't save him, SB and PS wont stop the pain, SoD wont matter, guardian is useless, WoH and patient are relatively easy to shut out or divert, high armor sets and enchants, blocking ect do nothing. In the smaller arenas a well set up IW is effective at taking down many different target types, especially if they are unsupported or designed to normally function without support, and is perfectly viable. IW, like many mes skills, changes the rules a bit.

Tyla · Apr 25, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Yet your IW Mesmer relies on a fragile enchantment with a sturdy recharge, and has no chance of building adrenaline for a Deep Wound.
It's also set damage which doesn't trigger vampiric weapons or zealous weapons, and you don't get +damage off attacks skills.

Heck, about the Monk getting Diverted ect. could apply to the Warrior's situation aswell.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 25, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

right, something with no healing, attacking or support skills is more effective than something that has a full bar

Pretty much.

Quote:

Yeah laughed at.... till that stuff gets diverted/humiliated/blacked out/shut down/snared/degenerated ect and starts losing 40 hp every couple seconds

40hp is pathetic. Really, truly pathetic. A warrior outdamages that without using a single skill, then goes on to do far more with the rest of his bar.

Quote:

however IW mesmers make excellent line backers. A war starts losing 38-40 hp a second...

A hammer warrior makes an excellent linebacker. An IW does nothing. IW is not linebacking.

Quote:

Bingo, common prot won't save him, SB and PS wont stop the pain, SoD wont matter, guardian is useless, WoH and patient are relatively easy to shut out or divert, high armor sets and enchants, blocking ect do nothing.

This is actually a bad thing. Warriors are scary because monks are forced to waste energy to stop them tearing up their team, and people need to kite to avoid being eviscerated. . IW gets laughed at and out-healed. You seem to be under the impression that wasting an entire character on ~40dps and nothing else is a good idea in PvP. It really isn't. There's a reason people kill stuff with warrs and not IW messies - IW messies suck as melee.

Quote:

In the smaller arenas a well set up IW is effective at taking down many different target types, especially if they are unsupported or designed to normally function without support, and is perfectly viable.

No, IW 'works' because because people in lesser arenas are bad. If IW was any good, then you'd at least see a few gimmick teams running it in TA.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 26, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

40hp is pathetic. Really, truly pathetic. A warrior outdamages that without using a single skill, then goes on to do far more with the rest of his bar.

15^50 vamp axe with 14 in mastery, auto attacking the 80 al target was about 40+3 life steal, only slightly more then IW with 14. Those were crits, in between much, much lower damage hits. This was less against the 100 al target. So unless you get 100% critical rates against targets less then 80 al(most 60 al targets will have shields to protect themselves with getting their armor to about 70-78ish), the above is not quite true. Moreover, that damage can be mitigated with blocking, blinds, certain hexes ect. These are common melee defenses IW bypasses. Besides, If you're trying to attack a 60 al target right away you're doing it wrong, let your hard hitters punch trough their armor, throw some diversions at it every now and then, and chip at the thing the other classes aren't likely to hit for 40 damage consistently, the stuff that's likely to chase you around anyway.

Quote:

A hammer warrior makes an excellent linebacker. An IW does nothing. IW is not linebacking.

Maybe I'm missusing the term, what I mean is when warriors/sins/dervii are chasing your soft backline allies, overextended from their monks, in frenzy or what not, these targets are prime candidates for you to destroy with IW. Once these are dead, all you need do is suppress res, and destroy their soft targets at your leisure.

Quote:

IW gets laughed at and out-healed. You seem to be under the impression that wasting an entire character on ~40dps and nothing else is a good idea in PvP.

It gets laughed at till their dead in the dirt and start calling you a 'homo' and rage quit(true story, some dork saw IW going up, started taunting in all chat and got his ass stomped by yours truly using a Me/R IW blackout beast master). And you seem to be under the impression that IW is the only skill on the bar... There's a lot of skills that combo well with an IW mesmer that lead to interesting results and things other melee can't do, like dark escape, feigned neutrality, heket's rampage black out, ect.

As for it being a 'fragile' enchant, it's easy for a mes to cover, usually there's more important stuff to shatter. If you don't be a dumbass and cast it standing right next to a D-Shot ranger and you'll be fine. Like I said, it changes the 'melee' rules and bypasses a lot of common defenses prevalent in the small arenas, even if you can't stack the effects of vamp, zealous +damage ect. People in RA, AB ect may suck, but IW will kill them more often then not.

Tyla · Apr 26, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

15^50 vamp axe with 14 in mastery, auto attacking the 80 al target was about 40+3 life steal, only slightly more then IW with 14.

I thought a Warrior was supposed to take down the squishies?

Quote:

Those were crits, in between much, much lower damage hits. This was less against the 100 al target. So unless you get 100% critical rates against targets less then 80 al(most 60 al targets will have shields to protect themselves with getting their armor to about 70-78ish), the above is not quittrue.

Don't forget to keep in mind this is: Not using any skills, and you can also use attack skills and apply deep wound more easily.

Quote:

Moreover, that damage can be mitigated with blocking, blinds, certain hexes ect. These are common melee defenses IW bypasses. Besides, If you're trying to attack a 60 al target right away you're doing it wrong, let your hard hitters punch trough their armor, throw some diversions at it every now and then, and chip at the thing the other classes aren't likely to hit for 40 damage consistently, the stuff that's likely to chase you around anyway.

Blinds, hexes...you have a Monk backing you up, and although bad, Sight Beyond Sight is round the corner on /Rt.
Blocks...I herd switching targets wuz gud.

Quote:

Maybe I'm missusing the term, what I mean is when warriors/sins/dervii are chasing your soft backline allies, overextended from their monks, in frenzy or what not, these targets are prime candidates for you to destroy with IW. Once these are dead, all you need do is suppress res, and destroy their soft targets at your leisure.

You're still sacrificing your elite slot, and either way, cancel stances exist for Frenzy, which also double as a run buff.
You're also a squishy frontliner.

Quote:

It gets laughed at till their dead in the dirt and start calling you a 'homo' and rage quit(true story, some dork saw IW going up, started taunting in all chat and got his ass stomped by yours truly using a Me/R IW blackout beast master). And you seem to be under the impression that IW is the only skill on the bar... There's a lot of skills that combo well with an IW mesmer that lead to interesting results and things other melee can't do, like dark escape, feigned neutrality, heket's rampage black out, ect.

And there's also things that IW's don't offer.
Bull's Strike, reliable deep wound....

Quote:

As for it being a 'fragile' enchant, it's easy for a mes to cover, usually there's more important stuff to shatter. If you don't be a dumbass and cast it standing right next to a D-Shot ranger and you'll be fine. Like I said, it changes the 'melee' rules and bypasses a lot of common defenses prevalent in the small arenas, even if you can't stack the effects of vamp, zealous +damage ect. People in RA, AB ect may suck, but IW will kill them more often then not.

RA and AB, so THAT'S why it's working!
People there are usually bad.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 26, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I thought a Warrior was supposed to take down the squishies?

My AL when I run a 'squishy is usually in the 70-78 area, most make use of armor sets when confronted by a warrior.

Quote:

Don't forget to keep in mind this is: Not using any skills, and you can also use attack skills and apply deep wound more easily.

I can use skills just fine, just because I put up IW doesn't mean the rest of my skillbar gets blacked out(though I can do that if I want), and I can even get Deep Wound on there if I have to.

Quote:

Blinds, hexes...you have a Monk backing you up, and although bad, Sight Beyond Sight is round the corner on /Rt.
Blocks...I herd switching targets wuz gud.

and if I draw no monk in a random match or it goes down, or we get split up, I can attack in thee situations.

Quote:

You're still sacrificing your elite slot, and either way, cancel stances exist for Frenzy, which also double as a run buff.
You're also a squishy frontliner.
And there's also things that IW's don't offer.
Bull's Strike, reliable deep wound....

My favorite flavor of IW, the Me/A has reliable DW,(if I want it, DW is more a tool for spiking something dead, IW is about constant pressure) plenty of KDs to choose from, plenty of snares, AL equal to or greater then a warrior on demand, a run buff that can half it's damage WHILE it's attacking, and a lot of good defensive maneuvers and lots of cover enchants. Plenty of tactical options and strategies available, it's hardly a sacrifice or a waste of a slot if it's in your plan from the start. Just make your contingency plans, set a build and go for it.

Quote:

RA and AB, so THAT'S why it's working!
People there are usually bad.

have you been reading my posts at all? That's what I've been saying from the start. In a GvG or HA build you'd have plenty of tools to counter an IW, in the smaller arenas it's different. Unless your foes come prepared to mass shatter and/or punish IW's specific type of melee(faintheart, price, SS or SV type things are the main theats) then odds are in favor of it being able to destroy most opposition, or at least put up a good fight.